I agree completely that a major problem with all this fine talk about learning from your seniors suffers in the face of the possibility that even the best-intentioned people may not realize they have something to learn. That’s a tough nut to crack, especially when they’re surrounded by peers and juniors who don’t want to upset them. That’s where good bosses come in – they’re good not (or not only) because they’re nice, or overly solicitous; they’re good because they will tell you what you need to know to keep your career on track and to be able to contribute to your fullest.

“But sometimes we do anyway.” Your story about your dad illustrates this point unforgettably. But, of course, in cases like this, since we’ve been conscious of the lesson we want to make our own in the first place, we probably notice, even if usually not in time, any relapses, and can try again. I’m certainly still relearning lessons that way. I don’t believe we can avoid making some mistakes twice, but we can avoid surrendering to them, we can learn to make them less often, and eventually drop them out of the relapse class.

I think I appreciate your emphasis on not just people’s first bosses, but on immediate bosses, and front-line supervisors. If senior managers could learn to understand and measure their success – that is, the organization’s – through the performance of such bosses and their immediate supervisees such as you present it, seemingly intractable problems even in wholly other areas would just go away.

I love your story about discovering the common link between the 16 generally acknowledged superior bosses. Do you know if anyone has ever followed your lead to look at this in the same way, but more broadly?

Thanks as always for your deep insight and for your work.

One of the interesting things about the Marines, I think, is that we take a pronounced approach to setting and demanding high standards in all areas – certainly in those set in authority over us. So, when we see them fall short of those standards, there is no mistaking their behavior for anyting other than what it is: below-standard. The person in question may not even be aware of not measuring up, but we all know it, we can see the negative effects of it, and we have a unique opportunity to learn from it.

Thanks for an excellent illustration of the point, and, as always, for your visit and your work.

When I was about thirty, I made lists of things about my father that I liked and things I wanted to do differently. As I look back on the effort from thirty years on, it’s amazing how much of his example, good and less good, I followed, even when I consciously decided to do otherwise.

I think we need to understand the impact of people’s first bosses on their behavior and then work to put our best supervisors with our new people. Some years back I did a research to try and get at the impact of those first supervisors.

We identified 16 excellent supervisors in a police agency, all of whom were rated as excellent by their boss, their peers and their subordinates. Then we look at whom they had worked for.

It turned out that each of the sixteen broke in with one of four sergeants from an earlier generation. This is hardly scientific, but it’s stayed with me. Our parents and our first bosses have a powerful impact on our attitudes about what work is and what leadership should look like.

Then I met a staff sergeant whose language was so pervasively foul that I was shocked out of my use of similar language in everyday conversation. I did not want to be perceived in the same way I looked at him.

We always got the job done. As you know, Marines accept nothing less. But it’s interesting how you can learn from your superiors’ less than stellar behavior.

Good managers can have a positive impact on many levels, all of which reinforce each other in the lives of others both personally and professionally.

Thanks again – and keep up your good work!

Poor managers beget poor managers creating a great deal of havoc in the work place and beyond. It just snowballs. The good news is that the opposite is also true. Good managers can have a tremendous impact as well. Hopefully posts like yours can influence more managers to be cognizant of their impact and leave more “footprints of GOOD.”

Thanks for the link! Looks good; I’ll read it tonight.

You’re exactly right – and I think an important thing for us to be cognizant of is the impact – sometimes quite profound – of our actions on others, particularly those who look to us for examples of how to conduct one’s self as a manager.

And I agree very much with your observation about learning from bad managers (as long as we’re learning the right lessons!) – some of the most important things I think I’ve learned (including the one that prompted this post) have come from watching the bad ones with a wary eye.

Thanks for your visit and contributions, as alwasy!

This is exactly that idea – we learn early how to act – right or wrong. Funny thing, I’ve learned more from poor managers than from great ones. You’re right, Jim: we need to observe to understand, not just follow the leader!